Originally Posted by Jonathan Levy
Harai - recall that Joffrey also is the one to send the Catspaw to kill off Bran - and did so in a manner that Tyrion would be blamed. Plus he probably told the Hound to kill Mycah. Plus he rejected directions to let Ned take the black. Plus he had Sansa beaten multiple times in ACOK. He's a nasty little sh*t without redeeming qualities who tried to, and did, cause serious harm to the Starks.
I have to agree. Joffrey is in the heart of the Stark's demise. It was because of his foolish attempt at killing Bran that Catelyn went to King's Landing where she was manipulated by Littlefinger, then she arrested Tyrion for a crime he didn't commit and that's when the war began (Tywin attacked Riverrun is response to that). And Joffrey had Eddard killed despite Cersei and Varys who wanted him sent to the Wall. But there's another man also as much responsible for Stark's fall - Littlefinger lied about the dagger and betrayed Eddard at the last crucial moment with the Goldcloaks just after Robert's death.
Howcome the spoiler thread looks so different?
Or maybe it's just me...
Is it just me?
PS. am I an odd duck for having a grudging respect for Danerys? Sure, there's times I've wanted to smack her...but...
okay, and I completely missed pages 2 and 3 somewhere...oi this plague is giving me "the dumb" for sure.
Joffrey is a spoiled selfish brat (but, we seem to see a lot of that in the young nobility...a certain other bird seems to carry this trait as well). Oh well, that's a rant for another day when I get to re-reading things and commenting...it seems like so long ago I read GoT.
Last edited by pro_star; 03-21-2011 at 03:41 PM.
Ah well. I did say it's good this read came up now, I'm definitely fogging on the details.
Thanks for the corrections guys. However, say we pin it on Joffrey. The whole problem was that he isn't _actually_ a Baratheon. Not so?
edit: also, have to agree with Tonka: Littlefinger is right in there too.
True. But Arya's 10.
Originally Posted by Astus
Originally Posted by RobMRobM
Sorry - how do we know Joffrey was the one to tried to have Bran killed? My assumption was that it was either Jaime or Cersei. They are afraid Bran will remember what he saw, so they want to have him killed; also, they know that Tyrion knows about them after their conversation in Winterfell. It makes sense that they would try to kill two birds with one stone - kill Bran who saw, and blame Tyrion who knows.
Joffrey has no idea that Bran saw Jaime and Cersei - it's not even clear that he knows Robert Baratheon isn't his biological father.
As for the omen - the Direwolf died from an encounter with a stag, but it wasn't murdered by a stag. You could equally say that it was an omen of Robert Baratheon's visit, because this is what set in motion the events leading to Stark's demise.
Re Joffrey's role. It is made clear later in the books that Joff is the one who tried to finish off Bran. Don't ask me for a cite - I can't recall at this moment. (It is absolutely not Jamie, as Cat confirms in her chat with him in the Riverrun cells in ACOK. ) As I recall, the distinctive knife was won by Robert in a bet with Jamie and Robert gave it to Joff as a gift.
From Westeros - The Citidel FAQ:
5.1. Who tried to kill Bran?
Evidence revealed in A Storm of Swords points squarely at Joffrey as the instigator. At the queen’s breakfast he revealed, "... I am no stranger to Valyrian steel." (III: 663) Tyrion, suspicious of that statement, suggests that he will give a Valyrian steel dagger with a dragonbone hilt as a gift to Joffrey. Joffrey’s reply is awkward: "Joff gave him a sharp look. ‘You ... yes, a dagger to match my sword, good.’ He nodded. ‘A ... a gold hilt with rubies in it. Dragonbone is too plain.’" (III: 664) Finally, Jaime questions Cersei about the attempt on Bran. She reveals that Robert said in Joffrey’s hearing that it’d be a kindness to end the boy’s misery, but that they were all too weak. Jaime concludes that Joffrey, eager for his father’s attention, may have decided to prove that he was capable of doing it (III: 823).
I remember being very disappointed in the dagger plotline. We are teased out over three books about who sent the damn dagger, and it turns out Joffrey did it because of an offhand comment his father made? I remember at the time I thought that was something of a cop-out, and even wondered of GRRM changed his mind about who sent the dagger at some point.
By the way, how does everyone think we should treat the spoiler thread? Should we stick to commenting on the contents of the two chapters (something I just did not do)? With only two chapters a week, it'll take a while before we get into the meaty stuff.
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